2019 CONSTELLATION CUP AUS v NZ TEST 4 (Perth)2019-10-26T22:05:23+10:00

Forums International 2019 CONSTELLATION CUP AUS v NZ TEST 4 (Perth)

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  • minkie
      Post count: 375

      Diamonds got offered a chance to have the Umpires at there training which they took up on
      Ferns weren’t given same option and found out after game
      That is digusting, does money speak that far? 30 million.

        Post count: 2353

        Agree, not right, not happy with that or the appointment of a very underwhelming umpire. Happy NT is putting in a formal complaint though

          Post count: 7

          Two of Mes’s penalties were when the aussies back played it to Bruce. Two correct calls by the umpire.

            Post count: 375

            And the other 3 penalties?

            Avatar photoIan Harkin
              Post count: 20962

                Post count: 69

                Whilst I DONT appreciate the direct approach of targeting that “one” umpire, it was a messy game with messy calls. The umpiring as a COLLECTIVE deserves scrutiny.

                Would it have changed the result? No. Australia played better. But it could have been a BETTER contest.

                The Diamonds having access to these officials before the match, should have down right not have happened, and I’d be saying the same thing if it were the Ferns…..

                  Post count: 375

                  I’d have surprised but pleasantly if the Ferns had won. Winning by 1 point in past games is always dicey. But yes it would’ve been a better fairer game if umpires were different. When you hear the opposition’s commentators querying alot of calls that says alot. It’s not going to change outcome but doesn’t leave a pleasant feeling against LA and Diamonds. God imagine if the Ferns did that.

                    Post count: 5

                    I think quite a few of the offensive contacts called against Mes in particular were correct.
                    Soft…yes. But probably correct.
                    NZ style is to stand in front and have their arms out to hold the player behind.
                    A lot of international umpires call NZ players for this exact play. Usually over the course of a series or tournament they have time to adjust to this though.
                    I find a lot of international umpires tend to penalise more static movements like arms out or holding compared to a physical momentary body on body contest.
                    So internationally as a whole, umpires do need to try and get more consistent across the board as to what is a contact and what is just holding your space.

                    I think it was a result of it being the first game the new umpire umpired in the series. THAT part I think was wrong. The players had played 3 games already under umpires who they had a chance to adjust to. I do not think the umpire should have been bought in for the last game and such a big game and not have the players have a chance to “get a feel” for what was going to be called.

                    Basset also got called for a few offensive contacts. They just weren’t all in a space of 3 minutes.

                    For the record, I do think that umpire in particular was a bit out of her element, her calls were often a second or 2 late, and she was a little hot on the held balls. But for both teams.
                    For the record, I think umpires should be selected from the top 5 best umpires. No matter where they are from. But again, we would have some variances in interpretation of the rules to deal with. But also, much more experienced umpires who can alter the way they umpire to suit international netball and all styles.

                    Additionally I don’t under stand the big drama about the umpiring in the last game versus the umpiring in previous games.
                    Yes it was game 4 I understand this.
                    But what about game 1 where Ekenasio went 2 metres offside to get a tip right at the end that effectively won the game for them.
                    Burger also knocked the ball out of Thwaites hand in the last few minutes. Awful umpire calls or non calls that won or lost the game for a team.
                    I didn’t see LA in the media calling for heads.
                    I didn’t see NT in the media saying it was awful umpiring.
                    I think it would have been addressed behind closed doors. As this should have been.

                    Can you imagine this poor umpires head space right now reading all this. It would be crushing

                    I do agree the umpiring as a whole was substandard to the skill level of the players. But you cant pick and choose when you are going to complain depending on whether you got the win or not via bad umpiring.

                    NT also needs to take a lot of responsibility for the shooting combo she started the game with. This definitely did not work and resulted in a loss of timing for NZ. Not saying Mes shouldn’t have played, just saying why change a starting combo that has delivered every time so far.

                    A little too convenient for my liking that the inexperienced umpires efforts mask the fact that NT made a really bad coaching decision. That first qtr decision effectively set up the win for Aus.

                    Just my thoughts

                      Post count: 54

                      Netfan, I agree with your first two points, but not the final one – umpires attending training before matches is standard practice and has been for years (as is meeting with coaches after a match, which was raised earlier in the thread).

                      Umpires need practice too, and the transistion from a tournament of teams ranked in the 20s to a 1v2 match without any exposure to the faster pace at that level to prepare would be madness. Neither umpire would put Sunday’s game in their highlights package, but both Yuliani and Stevenson impressed me at the world cup, in factI thought Yuliani deserved a higher ranked play-off game than she eventually got. One clear learning from this series (and the world cup) is that INF needs somehow to find the resources to invest in umpire development. Getting Yuliani and other Singapore-based internaitonal qualified umpires onto the SSN roster would be a good start.

                        Post count: 375

                        If you’re worried about umpires feelings, try putting yourself in Bailey’s. She’s always getting crucified. Umpires calls either make or break a game. Whether it was right or wrong putting Bailey on it was Nolenes decision.

                        • This reply was modified 4 years, 1 month ago by minkie.
                          Post count: 1220

                          I’m pretty sure that all Ferns players know that if they are not present in training the week prior to the game then they don’t get the start. Doesn’t matter why. Bruce played in a way that she knew Bailey would be penalised – thats just the team doing their homework on the squad.

                          My only criticism of the umpires is that they need to be in a position to see what is going on – how can they make a call when they are standing behind the players – it wasn’t just this game.

                          The Ferns were outplayed on the day – Australia started better, NZ finished better but it wasn’t ‘better’ enough. I’m not thinking NZ lost the series, the reality is that 2 all is a draw.

                          Jenny Sinclair
                            Post count: 18

                            At the press conference NT was very quick to congratulate Aust and said that they were amazing and it was the best they’d played. She commented that the offensive penalties in the first quarter changed the tempo of the game, which they did. She also accepted that NZ were guilty of too many turnovers. She noted that Yuliani had only flown in the night before and hadn’t worked with any of the players so no one had time to adjust to her particular interpretation of the umpiring. She questioned the governing bodies decision to do this, rather than make her a reserve. She also questioned the number of penalties given to NZ – and I totally agree on this one, having analysed the SFs/Aust penalties over the last few years. See the article I wrote about it if you haven’t, but usually Australia are consistently higher, and deservedly so given the different style of game they play.

                            NT’s biggest beef is that the athletes deserved better, and they did. It was a totally confusing match to everyone – players, coaches, fans and commentators. She was clearly emotional about it, and I congratulate her for speaking out. People have to or nothing will change.

                            Minkie – regarding the umps before the game. It’s my understanding that it’s up to the teams to invite the umpires along to training, and most teams take advantage of the chance to catch up and learn the individual interpretations. The umpires usually have a coach along with them who discusses decisions, and helps to upskill the umps. This can’t happen if the ump in question only flew in the night before.

                            This was an amazing game and it was a privilege to be at. Wonderful atmosphere, heartfelt speeches, some amazing milestones, a sense of closure to the year, tears, laughter, hugs. And yes, the quality of the umpiring really tarnished it.

                              Post count: 375

                              Thanks Jenny, great writeup
                              My understand was the umpire had games in Singapore right up until the last minute then quickly caught a plane to land in Perth just in time for the Diamonds training session. Either the offer wasn’t extended or it was too late in the day for the same to happen with Ferns. Roles reversed Diamonds wouldn’t be happy if Ferns did this, Diamonds got the rough end of umpire and lost. Fair call?
                              You don’t mind loosing if your crap but you do mind loosing with all the inconsistency.

                                Post count: 5

                                So we are agreeing then ?
                                NT made the call to start Bailey
                                It didn’t work
                                The end?

                                • This reply was modified 4 years, 1 month ago by Havingalook.
                                  Post count: 22

                                  Thanks Jenny that was great, gives real context to NT’s comments and clarity re umpires attending training sessions. I know that it happens regularly in SSN but wasn’t sure if the same applied to int’l but it looks like it does.
                                  Would have loved to have been at the game, atmosphere sounds amazing!

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